Category: accessible Devices
Hi, I am trying to get work as a credit card collector at a local call center. I am using Window Eyes along with a braille display and a programmable keyboard.
I have programmed in some functions on the keyboard and they worked fine last week. The functions allow me to create programs which do a series of keyboard commands so that I can move around the screen to specific pieces of info I need to look at while on the phone with the customer.
Today, I went back to test them out and most of them don't work. They move me to different spot on the screen than they previously had.
I am interested in talking with anyone that uses Window Eyes or a programmable keyboard, but preferrably both.
Please PQN me if you have any ideas.
thanks
James K
James, can you provide a bit more info as to what the keyboard is doing? Is it working in conjunction with the call center software changing your focus and windoweyes is reading it or is it programming windoweyes?
Hi,
I will try to answer these questions. The keyboard is changing my focus in WE. It is working in conjunction with the call center's proprietary software.
I have programmed the keyboard's programmable function keys to move my focus to certain locations on the screen so that I can access specific pieces of information about the account such as name, location, credit card balance, etc.
The keyboard allows you to program a set of specialized, built-in programmable function keys located above the regular F1-F12 keys on a regular keyboard to do a series of keystrokes with one press of a function key. For example, to access the name of a cardholder, I programmed PF1 to use the letter t three times to move me through three tables on the page and then used the system cursor arrow keys to move down another five lines which then stops exactly where the name of the person is on the screen.
I had programmed 12 different keys like this to allow me quick access to specific info I will need during a call. All of them worked on wednesday when I left. I came back today to do some more programming and decided to try the keys I had already programmed. Many of them didn't bring me to the right location on the screen and none of them did with onsistency.
No software updates had been done to the company's software and the screen looked visually unchanged from the last time I had programmed it. If you have any ideas as to why the keys I programmed don't work, please let me know. Thanks in advance for the help.
James K
That's a tough one. I think the clue might be when you said "I came back today to do some more programming and decided to try the keys I had already programmed. Many of them didn't bring me to the right location
on the screen and none of them did with onsistency."
I notice that you are mixing we commands with the keyboard commands (for example, the three "T"s (which is a we command) and the five down arrows which are keyboard commands.)
It sounds like someone (probably window-eyes) is being outrun. This is a problem that often occurs in jaws scripts. If there is a "pause" command that you could program into the function key, that would be
great. Otherwise, I think you are going to have to get really creative.
I don't remember window-eyes that well, but I seem to remember that they had a way to go to a specific position on the screen. That might work better than the three "t"s.
Bob
Hi Bob,
thansk for the help. WE has what they call user windows which bring you to specific pixel locations on the screen, but there are frequent software updates which slightly alter the screen lay-out. I thought this programmable keyboard would help correct some of this.
Have you used a programmable keyboard before? Is it possible to mix WE and keyboard commands?
Do you think that could be possibly screwing me up?
Hi Jamesk.
No, I don't think it's the mixture of the two sets of commands. I think that the three "t"s is probably just getting sent too quickly for we to find each table in succession.
I have used a programmable keyboard before--like everything else in my life--it's been a while back. But, I don't recall any problems.
Could you maybe put this in a keyboard macro for window-eyes? or maybe a set file.
If I were doing a jaws script for this, I would issue each "t" keyboard command followed by a pause command (thus giving we time to do it). That would make the execution slow down, but you could take them out one at a time, and check the effect.
Of course, there's always the possibility that this isn't it at all. <oops>., but I really think this is your problem.
Maybe talk with others who have used the same kind of keyboard and see if there is some way to produce a pause in processing.
Bob
One more thing.
Have you contacted GwMicro about this? They have some real gurus there whom I have found to always be willing and able to help. Their tech support is better than freedom scientific's is, in my opinion.
I'd give them a call.
Bob
thanks everyone for the suggestions, if you have any other ideas, let me know.
I took the keyboard home last night and copied and pasted a webpage in to a Word document and then saved it as a webpage. I tried programming in this file using both WE system cursor and mouse cursor keystrokes. The system cursor program didn't do anything at all and the hot key I programmed using mouse cursor commands only dinged and didn't give me the desired results, either.
I am beginning to wonder if my keyboard is defective. Its just bizarre that it worked last week and then not this week.
Thanks again for the suggestions everyone.
James K
Below is a copy of an e-mail I sent to some tech ppl I've been working with. It may shed some more light on the situation.
I was just using the new programmable keyboard here at home last night along with Internet Explorer. It became stuck in combo box and would do nothing. It had done this a few times when I was trying it out at home before I took it to the bank, but I thought it was just a fluke or something and then kind of forgot about it happening after I took it to the bank b/c it seemed to work well last week when we tried it there.
When the keyboard seemed to be stuck in combo box, I hadn’t entered any combo box, but it would just read “combo box edit” over and over each time I tried to move the system or mouse cursor. I tried to move the mouse cursor to another place on the page with no results. I also tried turning browse mode on and off, but finally had to shut the comp entirely down and restart it.
This happened and sometimes I was able to refresh the webpage and it would work fine again for awhile, but other times nothing I tried worked and I had to shut the comp down.
I have no idea if this has any bearing on why its not working at the bank, but thought it was important you guys know about it.
If you have any questions, please call or e-mail.
Thanks for everything.
James K
Hi Blbobby,
yes, I've called GW Micro but they idn't tell me anything. they just said they thought it wasn't a WE problem.
I am truly beginning to think its the keyboard itself. I have brought it homeand hooked it to my laptop and it still doesn't work right.
anyway, thanks everyone fro all the help.
James K
James, first, my compliments to Bob! man! I teach this stuff and do configs for clients and I couldn't have offered anythinkg more. You hit everythinkg. I guess James the one thinkg I would say is try the commands manually first to see if they work and then program them in to the keyboard. I am gathering the software you are using is web based. If manuaally pressing t 3 times and then using your arrow keys yields the same results consistantly and you find that when you program the keyboard the results are not consistant then you can be sure it has to do with the keyboard. Bob's idea of pauses between commands would be a great implimentation. They don't have to be long pauses and you probably wouldn't even notice them but they would be just enough for the commands to be executed properly. Now, if you do the commands manually and one week you find they work and the next week you find that you have been brought to a different place then some software or page updateing has to be going on. It doesn't have to be signifigant. sometimes a small change is enough. I would also as you your self suggested try another keyboard to see what the results are. Keep us posted.
Hi John and everyone,
Thanks for the suggestions. I always try the commands manually before I program each hot key. they have always worked manually, but not after I tried to program them. I am convinced its that POS keyboard. I'll bring the older version I have back and try it out to be sure, but I'm not a betting man and I'd put money on the problem being a defective keyboard.
Yup, then I think we are all with you. I would also research the possibillity of programming pauses in to the keyboard which when it is working should garentee the commands being accepted.
Hi John and others,
I changed the batteries in the keyboard for fresh ones, thinking that the ones that cam from the factory might be old.
After this, I ran a program which erased all programming on the keyboard. I then tried to reprogram the keyboard again, but it still didn't work. I tried programming PF1 as a series of down arrows, but it only beeped at me and acted like it didn't know when to stop. it only dinged for several seconds until I hit control and then it quit, but still obviously didn't work right.
I also had an issue when going to various websites where WE would only read "combo box edit" along with a string of numbers. I tried turning browse mode on and off, tried moving with the mouse and system cursors, and nothing worked. I finally had to shut the comp completely down. I thought this might be a particular website, but I tried four or five different ones with similar results.
I think the keyboard is defective. When I use a nonprogrammable keyboard, none of this stuff happens. I visited the same websites as before and they worked fine.
The keyboard acts so erratic. Sometimes it works fine, besides the programming functions, and then again it might not work at all or random commands won't work like hitting "7" to route the mouse to the top left of the screen.
If anyone has any ideas, please let me know and thanks for everything already.
James K
Tellya James, your quite the troubleshooter. YOu'll get this solved and I belive your on the right track. that battery idea was an excellent thinkg to try.
Hi John,
that wasn't my idea. the tech person I work with mentioned the problem to his boss and he asked him if he changed the worthless batteries that came with the keyboard. He changes them in everything he buys. I guess they use cheap batteries in the stuff and that it can sit in inventory for awhile so they batteries may have been dead.
I don't think it was the batteries, though, b/c the kyboard still doesn't work.
Gotta agree with WillyTheWoof. Hats off to you James. I would have thrown my hands up in disgust long before now.
I think you are probably right, about it being a keyboard problem.
Sorry for misleading you about the need to program in pauses: it's always batteries, chips or broken wires that give us the most problems.
Bob
Bob and John,
i did need to program in pauses. I was having trouble getting either of the keyboards I have to consistently go tot eh same spot. Whn I programmed each hot key, I did ctrl home so I always had a reference point to start from. I then programmed the rest of the keystrokes i wanted to include in the program. The keyboard was running through the programming sequence so fast that it wasn't picking up the ctrl home command.
Now when I program I always do two or three right arrows and then the ctrl home command and the rest of the programming.
Thanks again for all the help.
James K
Cheers James. That was a good substitute for a pause you found. Right arrow does no harm whether it gets executed or not, so can stand as a pause.
Reminds me of an old mainframe command, iefbr14. This little program did nothing but go out to the operating system and come back to your command sequence. But, it sure was useful.
Okay, enough reminiscences. Back to ... .
Bob
Firstly, let me start of by saying that i have never used we or a a keyboard that i have programed other than to lornch winamp and stuff like that.
Perhaps wen you programed the keys your computer was having a slow day, there for taking it longer to prosess the keystrokes there for giving we longer to deal with them? You then come back the next day and your computer after a restart is prosessing to fast for we?
My suggestion for you is that between every keystroke you put a key that won't effect anything thats going on if you press it, for example control? Dunno, just my 2 pence.
Hth, BEN.
Ben,
Thanks, I'll try it.
Good idea, Ben. Unfortunately, control by itself won't do it. It's one of those modifier keys that expects another key to accompany it; like the shift key.
Right off, I can't think of a key that really does nothing. Maybe the 5 on the calculator keyboard, but speech programs like window eyes and jaws would have a fit.
Can't think of a good candidate.
Bob
Bob,
would the "shift" key work or is it a modifier as well?
Sorry, shift, alt, control and windows are all modifiers. (Though windows and alt are kind of questionable since they do something to your computer if you press them by themselves.)
Any key that can be pressed in conjunction with another key is a modifier key.
The jaws folks and to a lesser extent the window-eyes folks have made the insert key (zero on the calculator keyboard) into a modifier, which I have always thought was pretty damned slick.
Maybe there is a way with your keyboard to enter control characters. If so you could enter a control 0 0 which would do absolutely nothing. Don't know.
Bob
hi John, Bob, and others
I took the old keyboard to the bank today to try it out, since the new one we purchased didn't seem to be working. The old one (an AnyKey model), didn't work consistently either. It had worked fine when I hooked it to my laptop this weekend. I programmed in several keys and they all worked great.
I still don't think the new programmable keyboard I have works right, b/c it didn't work on the bank's comp or on my personal laptop, but I think there are conflicts between the collections software and WE. Any ideas are greatly appreciated.
Thanks.
James K
Man! after reading all of this troubleshooting I am stumpt. James, you've got the ultmate tech support team here wow! It really sounds like everythinkg has been tried. one question, I wonder if the application key would work? I know it can serve as a right click but perhaps in the particulare software you are using it might? just a thought. I am really impressed with all who have posted. I do this stuff quite a lot and really enjoyed all of the suggestions. It's better then calling tech support. You go guys!!!!!!what a team....
Hi John,
I don't know if it would work or not. I am going o the bank tomorrow morning to try out both the old and new programmable keyboards I have with a programmer from the state I have been working with. I should know more then, but am not optimistic.
I just want to thank everyone for the helpful suggestions. I hope I can return the favor someday.
thanks again.
I still think you could abandon the programmable keyboard and do a key macro in window-eyes. You know do a find on some static text near where you want to be, or go to a known position. etc. The programmable keyboard seems to be introducing additional problems instead of solving them. Don't forget that we has a close relationship with keystrokes too, and they may be in conflict. Have you tried running the keyboard with we shut down to see if it works?
Unfortunately, I don't have a version of window-eyes on this computer, or I could peruse the manual to find a solution. I'm really surprised the GWMicro folks haven't been more helpful.
Bob
Hi Bob, John and everyone:
Thanks for the help already. I have a few more questions, though.
I tried the keyboard without WE running today and also tried it on three different comps and it still acted erratically. I sent the damn thing back to get a new one today.
Please explain more to me how keyboard macros work and how to create them, Bob or anyone. Can I create them using a regular keyboard and WE? what can you make them do? can you use them on the Net?
thanks in advance.
James K
I really don't know. You would have to check the manual for that. It might be through (I think they call it) user windows, or it might be through set files.
In other words, I don't know, but I'm sure there's a way.
Bob
Hi Bob,
I've tried user windows already. They set WE's focus by using screen pixels. For example, you could create one to look at something on the screen that is 20 pixels down and 15 from the left hand edge.
This works if the screen lay-out doesn't change, but the company does frequent software updates and things on the screen a slight bit when these updates happen. Consequently, this trows the user windows off.
This is why I decided to try the programmable keyboard, but no very successful so far.
thanks for all the ideas, though, everyone.
James K
I'll make this fast, as I am currently fighting a virus on my machine.
Have you tried floating windows? Don't know what they are, but I remember them from my we training, and thought they might be appropriate.
Bob
James, someone suggested earlier looking for specific text strings. That might work, because it might not be quite so software-dependent. Just my two cents in the pot.
Lou
hey thansk everyone,
I'll check in to the floating windows. Text strings would work for certain parts of the program, but there are various buttons that I need to click on to have access to other parts of the program as well.
The floaing windows idea is a great suggestion though.
Thanks again everyone.
The pause key, located on the top right corner of most keyboards, usually has no action associated with it in most applications. You could use it to create the pause, and the name of the key, ironically enough, suggests what you want to use it to do in your keyboard programming code. I use it as a global winamp play pause toggle. it is in the same cluster as
hth
Shawn
print screen and scroll lock.
thanks Shawn, i don't have the keyboard right now. I sent the first one I had back to the comp and am getting a new one. it was defective.
Shawn, that is a brilliant idea. Pause should do it.
Bob